Posts by Doug Mason

1

Earthquake data - maybe they should have picked a different year

by Doug Mason in

some interesting factual data on earthquakes at these two sites.. http://www.thehorizonproject.com/earthquakes.cfm.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/historical.php .

unfortunately, 1914 does not mark a turning point.. maybe 2014?.

Doug Mason

Some interesting factual data on earthquakes at these two sites.

http://www.thehorizonproject.com/earthquakes.cfm

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/historical.php

Unfortunately, 1914 does not mark a turning point.

Maybe 2014?

Doug

3

Who might possibly mislead the Chosen Ones?

by wannabe in

this preaching work would have to be done by the one that might possibly mislead the chosen ones; due to the fact that, they would be doing a similar work to what all of the first century christian's did.

luke foretold, to the letter, exactly the work this false prophet would be doing, and leaves us with no doubt, as to who this false prophet would be; note now, his words on this:.

8 he said: "look out that you are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am he, and, the due time has approached.

Doug Mason

Jesus told them to watch out for deceivers. These false preachers would point to events such as wars as being portents, but they were not to be believed. In fact such deceivers were doing this even at the time he was speaking - and have continued to do so ever since. It's nothing new today; a success rate of zero.

Wars have always existed. Earthquakes have always existed. Famines are not new. These things are pointed to by deceivers, but they are not indicators. Jesus never spoke of size, extent, length, number of casualties, just that these things do occur and would be used by deceivers.

The thief does not announce that he will be paying a visit, and that's how it is with the divine intervention.

Jesus plainly and explicitly says that an evil generation looks for signs, and also that only the Father, and he alone, knows the timing.

Doug

4

The great crowd! Gathered from where? By Whom?

by wannabe in

at last count, there are some eight billion people living on our earth at this present moment in time.

which brings me to the point i. wish to make about a great unnumbered crowd surviving the great tribulation, after armageddon is fought.. .

but it would take another 4000 years to do that.

Doug Mason

wannabe,

I don't think you need concern yourself with the numbers of people who lived in the distant past.

It would appear that by the time the Neanderthals died out - likely due to climate change - that we are speaking of small numbers. Homo Sapiens were clearly more adventurous, but I still doubt that we are speaking of significant numbers, even if the period being covered were say 1 million years.

Most likely, even though there might have been a reasonable number of humans 40,000 years ago, it is not likely they would number in the high millions, let alone billions.

Doug

4

The great crowd! Gathered from where? By Whom?

by wannabe in

at last count, there are some eight billion people living on our earth at this present moment in time.

which brings me to the point i. wish to make about a great unnumbered crowd surviving the great tribulation, after armageddon is fought.. .

but it would take another 4000 years to do that.

Doug Mason

Could someone please clear up a confusion for me.

I thought JW soteriology says that the death of Jesus Christ is only for the 144,000, the Born Again Christian Brothers.

I have thus have understood that the WTS says the rest of humanity could only be saved through recognition of and obedience to the WTS's "Kingdom arrangement".

Now you people are pointing to Revelation 7 which says that the Great Crowd people have their sins washed by the blood of the Lamb. Does this mean that Jesus Christ died for these people too, or is eternal life available through taking in information provided through the Governing Body?

Doug

3

JWs follow "who" not "what"

by Doug Mason in

my first very serious encounter with jws took place just before they issued the first part (a-e) of aid to bible understanding, so we are talking about the late 1960s.. in previous years, i had read papers exposing the wtss errors with the neo-babylonian chronology.

so when i checked on the claimed sources on the subject in the aid book, i found that the author was lying.

consistently.

Doug Mason

The WTS could never accept the Trinity as this would erode its power base.

They cannot have Jesus as anything but a human, because his sacrifice was for only a small, select group, his Brothers, also known as Christians, Elect, and so on -- the 144,000.

This means that everyone else, the Great Crowd, the Unrighteous, can only be saved through the intellectual knowledge that comes through the Governing Body.

Which in turn means that holy spirit cannot be a person who speaks outside of the WTS directly to any individual. Holy spirit must remain under control of the Governing Body. (None of the 144,000 still on earth has any input into the organisation's teachings.)

So the Trinity must continue to be denied as part of its mind-control regime.

Doug

3

JWs follow "who" not "what"

by Doug Mason in

my first very serious encounter with jws took place just before they issued the first part (a-e) of aid to bible understanding, so we are talking about the late 1960s.. in previous years, i had read papers exposing the wtss errors with the neo-babylonian chronology.

so when i checked on the claimed sources on the subject in the aid book, i found that the author was lying.

consistently.

Doug Mason

If CTR were alive today, he would be absolutely shocked at the organisation's current teachings and they would promptly disfellowship and shun him.

For example: 1914, Signs, governing body, faithful and discreet slave, 1874, the Millennium, 1910, the Pyramids, the change from democracy to theocracy, flip-flops on Ransom, Zionism, being succeeded by Rutherford; these come immediately to mind. I am sure this list could be added to.

15

Introduction to Daniel - For Fun and Prophet

by Farkel in

introduction to daniel - for fun and prophet.

when i was a dubbie, i considered reading the bible books to be a major and boring chore, mainly because i was required to believe all that stuff i was reading.

trying to make sense out of nonsense is always a frustrating chore.

Doug Mason

Objective research into Daniel provides the clues for its factual and exegetical errors. Such errors include:

Reference to the incorrect year that Daniel was taken captive.
The wrong name of the king following Babylon's Fall.
The confusion of Nebuchadnezzar's supposed madness with Nabonidus' absence from Babylon.
The incorrect reading of Jeremiah's "70 years".

A clue to the reasons for such errors lies in the reapplication by the writer(s) of the "70 years" to "70 heptads". This extended the original period to "490 years", which were timed to end when the book of Daniel was written - 164 BCE (some 400 years after the events being described).

Confirmation is given with the symbolic, mythical parables of the miraculous rescue of Daniel in a den of lions and in the miraculous survival from fire – even without the smell of smoke on them. The promised survival of the nation of Israel was being pictured, despite their persecutions at the time the book (scroll) was being written during the 2nd century BCE. That’s why they wrote that the “70 weeks” would terminate in their time.

Doug

11

John the Baptizer: Mystery and Folklore

by cameo-d in

i found something interesting that has just recently (2 wks.

ago) been uploaded into wiki.. it is a coin, described as "20 grani, order of malta, 1742. obverse depicts the head of john the baptist on a platter.".

you can see the image here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/file:20_grani,_order_of_malta.jpg.

Doug Mason

The following is from "Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography", by John Dominic Crossan, pages 35 - 36.

Antipas's execution of John cannot be explained by a simple appeal to Mark 6:17-29, even if one took that marvelous fiction as historical fact. Mark's account is best seen as his own creation, allowing him to emphasize certain parallels between the fate of John and Jesus, especially how both were put to death at the insistence of others by a reluctant and almost guiltless civil authority — Antipas for one, Pilate for the other.

In life, death, and even burial by disciples, John is, for Mark, the precursor of Jesus. And, probably, he was deliberately recalling an earlier and well-known Mediterranean horror story. When, in 184 b.c.e., Cato was one of the two official censors at Rome, he had Lucius Quinctius Flaminius expelled from the senate despite his consular rank. His crime is described by the orator Cicero, who died in 43 b.c.e.; again by the historian Livy, who died in 17 c.e.; and finally by the rhetorician Seneca the Elder, who died in 40 c.e. Here is one of the two versions in Livy's history of Rome, Book 3943:3-4.

At Placentia a notorious woman, with whom Flaminius was desperately in love, had been invited to dinner. There he was boasting to the courtesan, among other things, about his severity in the prosecution of cases and how many persons he had in chains, under sentence, whom he intended to behead. Then the woman, reclining below him, said that she had never seen a person beheaded and was very anxious to behold the sight. Hereupon, he says, the generous lover, ordering one of the wretches to be brought to him, cut off his head with his sword. This deed ... was savage and cruel: in the midst of drinking and feasting, where it was the custom to pour libations to the gods and to pray for blessings, as a spectacle for a shameless harlot, reclining in the bosom of a consul, a human victim sacrificed and bespattering the table with his blood!

The point was not that the man was innocent; he was going to be executed in any case. But it should still not be done just to please a mistress, and not at a banquet. The story was clearly a well-known example of how not to exercise power. Mark's creation intends, most likely, to recall that classic model.

11

John the Baptizer: Mystery and Folklore

by cameo-d in

i found something interesting that has just recently (2 wks.

ago) been uploaded into wiki.. it is a coin, described as "20 grani, order of malta, 1742. obverse depicts the head of john the baptist on a platter.".

you can see the image here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/file:20_grani,_order_of_malta.jpg.

Doug Mason

John the Baptist was a staunchly Jewish firebrand preacher.

The book of Revelation is clearly of that ilk (the 144,000 are described as pure Jews; the final battle is to be fought at a place called in Hebrew Armagedon), as well as strongly anti-sex (the 144,000 are described as male virgins; while opponents are described as a harlot).

For reasons such as these, some believe that John the Baptist, or someone closely associated with him, was responsible for penning that apocalyptic nightmare, the book of Revelation. Its language is rough Greek, in strong contrast to the polished language and thoughts of the last Gospel.

Doug

3

JWs follow "who" not "what"

by Doug Mason in

my first very serious encounter with jws took place just before they issued the first part (a-e) of aid to bible understanding, so we are talking about the late 1960s.. in previous years, i had read papers exposing the wtss errors with the neo-babylonian chronology.

so when i checked on the claimed sources on the subject in the aid book, i found that the author was lying.

consistently.

Doug Mason

My first very serious encounter with JWs took place just before they issued the first part (A-E) of “Aid to Bible Understanding”, so we are talking about the late 1960s.

In previous years, I had read papers exposing the WTS’s errors with the neo-Babylonian chronology. So when I checked on the claimed sources on the subject in the “Aid” book, I found that the author was lying. Consistently. Since this was a simple matter of accurate and honest reporting, and it had nothing to do with interpretation, the next time the JWs came, I showed them that their “Aid” book consistently misquoted and misrepresented the sources they claimed to be citing.

The impact on the visiting JWs? Just a blank look, apparently totally unaffected, with the response that the brothers were not perfect. I was flabbergasted. JW after JW, all the same. Facts had no impact.

It took me a long time to realise that THEY WERE FOLLOWING THE LEADERS IN BROOKLYN BECAUSE OF WHOM IT CLAIMED TO BE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. Whatever the leadership said was true, because it was after all, the only representative on Earth of God’s heavenly government. If they got things wrong, Jehovah God was permitting this to happen and he would correct things at the time of his own choosing.

(So how can one determine who has the truth, when even God’s organisation is subject to error? How can they complain that others are doctrinally incorrect when they find the need to change their own teachings?)

A long time later, I became aware of the personal pressures exerted on JWs, of which you will be aware. The Exclusive Brethren are amateurs in comparison.

This combination of obeying the leaders regardless of what they are saying, and their concern with the impact of shunning, means JWs are never interested in facts, only in defending the organisation.

All we can do is to sow seeds that in time might bear fruit at a time when the JW can see the mental stranglehold, and hopefully in time, is able to break the shackles.

Doug